Sequence of motion of Mars - 2

It is however not possible that three retrograde, as normally understood, motions of Mars, at Magha, Chitra-Swati and Jyeshtha, one after the other, could occur in any single year. Interpretation of Apasavya as Retrograde and Vakra meaning maybe, change of direction, veering to left or right, (not necessarily crossing the ecliptic), can be considered as an acceptable solution. If the Vakra motion i. e. crossing of ecliptic, had been seen at Magha and at Jyeshtha, one could accept Shri. Oak’s definition but it occurs at Rohini and before Anuradha.

Use of present tense in all statements of Karna and Vyasa creates problems which appear irreconcilable. At the start of war, Mars can be only 1)at Magha – मघासु (or 2) at Anuradha , - प्रार्थयते मैत्रम् 3) at Chitra, - पीड्यते or )at Shravan, -श्रवणे not at all four places, obviously. The text however uses present tense for all four! Also Mars would be at first three locations long time before start of war, if it had reached Shravan-Dhanishtha by start of war. So why Karna and Vyasa use present tense for earlier three positions is a puzzle. One could treat it as poetic liberty if the Vakra motion did take place at Magha and Jyeshtha, but it does not!

I wonder whether any better fit could be found in some other year. I have no means to check it.

I look forward to seeing similar video of Jupiter going Vakra at Shravan, when and where.

Sequence of movement of Mars.-1

I saw the videos of motion of Mars published by Shri. Oak. It is an excellent and imaginative use of the software he has got. I now review what the first four Videos show.

1. Mars starts on 16th Oct 5563 BCE South of ecliptic at Shravan, comes on Ecliptic ‘at Rohini’ and goes to North of Ecliptic at Rohini itself and then proceeds to reach Magha on 13th Aug. 5562 BCE, remaining north of ecliptic.

2. Proceeds to Chitra on 18th Nov. 5562 BCE, goes further to Swati, then goes retrograde back to Chitra – 6months near Chitra-Swati- till 19 May 5561 BCE

3. Becomes Prograde and proceeds to Anuradha crossing to south of ecliptic, a little before Anuradha, on 25th June 5561 BCE

4. Proceeds to Jyeshtha on 7th July 5561 BCE and then further to Shravan and upto Dhanishtha on ecliptic on 16th Oct. 5561 BCE

Now do these details match what Karna and Vyasa said?

1, Vyasa said Mars was Vakra at Magha. The Video shows Mars crossed the Ecliptic At Rohini, 6 Nakshatras behind Magha. Accepting Shri. Oak’s interpretation of Vakra motion, Mars should have crossed the Ecliptic at Magha, not Rohini! Mars did not come back to the ecliptic for long thereafter.

Also Mars was at Magha more than one year before the war date, yet Vyasa talks about the event in present tense. Vakra motions of Jupiter in Shravan, mentioned in the same shloka by Vyasa, again in present tense, actually happened 6 months and one year after war! Lots of discrepancies.

2. Mars did go retrograde between Chitra and Swati and came back to Chitra. It can be accepted as ‘चित्राम् पीडयते ग्रह:’

Only problem is that it happened long before the war and yet Karna talks about it in present tense. To justify Karna’s use of present tense, Mars should still be at Chitra!

3. Mars then crosses Ecliptic, but before Anuradha, not at Jyeshtha. So ‘कृत्वा अंगारको वक्र:’ is OK but not ‘ज्येष्ठायाम्’. Also it happened in July 5561 BCE. So why Karna talks about it in present tense?

‘अनुराधाम् प्रार्थयते मैत्रम्’ indicates that Mars was still close to Anuradha, approaching it. (Mars had just passed by Anuradha,having earlier crosses the ecliptic.) Actually, by Oct 5561 BCE, Mars was nowhere near Anuradha! It has moved five nakshatras ahead as though Anuradha had rejected the friendship!

4. At the time of war, Mars is described by Vyasa to be at Shravan. This description is fairly matched by what the video shows. Mars however appears a little beyond Shravan and closer to Dhanishtha on the ecliptic.

5. Crossing of Ecliptic by Mars is nicely seen in the Videos, though at wrong places. Question remains as to how Vyasa or anyone else could have noticed it. There is no thick yellow line in the real sky, as in the Video, to show the Ecliptic! Also motion of mars in the sky shown in the videos in a few minutes is actually over several months. So how the crossing could have been seen? This problem does not arise for noting retrograde (or Apasavya) motion. It can be seen without the ecliptic line.

On the whole, although the four Videos show all the motions of Mars mentioned by Karna and Vyasa, the location of going vakra or the timing indicated by use of present tense has serious mismatch problems.

Names of Lunar Months - Contd.

Between the Bhishma system and the current system based on Sun’s transit through rashi, thousands of years have passed. Was any refinement of Bhishma’s system introduced, such as, taking one extra month after 29 normal months? If so, when and by whom? Not known. If there was any such change, there must be somewhere a record of who introduced the change and more particularly, when.

There is a common belief among all researchers that on purnima day of any lunar month, the moon is in the Nakshatra whose name the month carries, e. g. in Chitra if the month is Chaitra etc. The Mahabharata researchers like Shri. Oak and Shri. Achar routinely place moon in that nakshatra on Purnima day and calculate on that basis. Conversely if moon is in Jyeshtha on purnima day, the month must be Jyeshth, is the conclusion! Out of curiosity I checked the position from Kalanirnay for all months of 2014 and found the rule is mismatched quite often! The table below shows the position for 2014. It can be seen that for 6 out of 12 months there is a mismatch!

Date of Purnima Month Name Nakshatra of the day

January 16 Poush Punarvasu NM

February 14 Magh Ashlesha NM

March 16 Falgun Purva-Falguni M

April 15 Chaitra Chitra M

May 14 Vaishakh Swati NM

June 13 Jyeshtha Jyeshthaa M

July 12 Ashadh Purvashadha M

August 10 Shraavan Shravan M

September 9 Bhadrapad Purva-Bhadrapada M

October 8 Ashvin Uttara-Bhadrapada NM

November 6 Kartik Ashvini NM

December 6 Margashirsha Rohini M

This is the position with the current accurate system of taking adhika masas. I wanted to see the position in Mahabharat days, with 2 Adhika masas together, after 58 continuous normally named masas –the Bhishma system. Shri. Oak generously helped to make a list of almost 100 consecutive months, and the purnima nakshatra of each in 2007 onwards from old Kalanirnay calendars. Then in the table, I named month nos 1 and 2 as Adhika and arbitrarily gave a name to month no.3 correctly matching the purnima nakshatra and then named 57 subsequent months as per normal sequence of Chaitra-Vaishakh etc. and then named the 59th and 60th months (month numbers 61 and 62) as Adhika masa, to resume normal names thereafter. So to say, I duplicated the Bhishma system. I found that by the time we go to 30th month onwards the month name and purnima nakshatra dont match at all and the mismatch kept on growing. It grew to 3 Nakshatras by 57th-58th month!

Month Number and Date of Purnima... Nakshatra ......Name of Month

1 ....................... 3-Jan-07 .......................Ardra-Punarvasu ........Adhika 1

2 ....................... 2-Feb-07 .......................Ashlesha .....................Adhika 2

3 ....................... 3-Mar-07 .......................Pur. Falguni ............ Falgun

4 ....................... 2-Apr-07 ........................Hasta ................... Chaitra

5 ....................... 2-May-07 ....................... Swati ....................Vaishakh

6........................ 31-May-07 ....................... Jyeshtha..................Jyeshth

7....................... 30-Jun-07 ....................... Pur Ash-Uttar ash.......... Ashadh

8 ...................... 30-Jul-07 ....................... Dhanishtha ................Shravan

9 ...................... 28-Aug-07 ....................... Shata-Pur Bhad.............Bhadrapad

10...................... 27-Sep-07 ....................... Uttara-Bhadra............. Ashvin

11 ..................... 26-Oct-07 ....................... Revati-Ashvini.............Kartik

12...................... 24-Nov-07......................... Krittika ................. Margashirsh

13...................... 24-Dec-07 ........................ Ardra..................... Poush

14...................... 22-Jan-08 ........................ Pushya.................... Magha

15 ......................21-Feb-08 ........................ Magha .................... Falgun

16 .......................................................................................... Chaitra

17............................................................................................ Vaishakh

18............................................................................................ Jyeshtha

.

.

.

.

56....................... 15-Jun-11 ....................... Moola .................... Shravan

57....................... 15-Jul-11 ....................... Ut. Ash.-Shravan..........Bhadrapad

58 .......................11-Aug-11........................ Dhanishtha-Shata...........Ashvin

59 .......................12-Sep-11....................... Purva Bhadrapada .........Kartik

60........................12-Oct-11....................... Utt. Bhadr.-Revati........Margashirsh

61........................11-Nov-11....................... Bharani...................Adhika 1

62........................10-Dec-11........................ Mrugashirsha..............Adhika 2

(Details of intermediate months not filled in)

I conclude that the assumption which researchers routinely make about purnima nakshatra and month name matching, is not at all tenable for Mahabharat or such ancient time!

Names of Lunar Months

The twelve lunar months of Indian Lunar calendar have names which are derived from names of twelve out of twenty-seven Nakshatra names. It is clear that the Nakshatra were given their names first. How twelve out of those have been selected for deciding month names? When did the nakshatras get their names and when the months got their names? The ancient texts of vedas etc. may have indications of these events.

Lunar months are only about 29 ½ days and 12 lunar months amount to only 354 days, short of the solar year of 365+ days. In order to keep step with Solar year, some nameless, ‘adhika’,lunar months need to be introduced. Jews follow a lunar calendar and have a system of such extra months in a 19 year cycle. The Muslims also follow lunar months but they do not have any extra months. Their year is just 12 lunar months. They are quite aware that their year is shorter than the Solar year but have lived with it all these years.

Solar year is also slightly larger than 365 days. A correction unit being ‘a day’, the system of leap years enables a much easier adjustment. Only a small change in the rule of Leap year of Julian calendar made the Gregorian Calendar more accurate. With lunar months and solar year, adjustment to catch-up is not easy, the unit being a full month!

The current system of naming Lunar months is not very old. It is linked with Sun’s motion through the ecliptic. Our ancestors had divided the ecliptic into 27 parts to match the approx. 27 days moon takes to pass through the ecliptic. The system of dividing the ecliptic into 12 equal parts called Rashis is linked with the approx 12 lunar months Sun takes to pass through the ecliptic. I believe, The Rashi System came to India from the Greeks. The Indian names of rashis are derived from the Greek names.

The current system of naming the Lunar month is based on Sun’s crossing over from one rashi to the next within the month. If Sun does not cross over within a Lunar month, then no name can be given to it and it becomes an Adhika month, but with the name same as the next regular month. Very rarely, Sun crosses over two Rashis in a lunar month and one month name needs to be skipped. We then get a Kshaya masa. When exactly, this system came into vogue? I have not come across any specific date or year when it started and who started it. The answer should be there somewhere but I dont know it.

Before that, what was the system of naming months and taking Adhika Masa? It is known that after approx 29 normal months an Adhika Masa needs to be taken to catch up with the seasons (Ritus). But it is not exact! So what were the rules?

Our ancestors may have started with no Specific Adhika Masa System as such. Exact and correct systems develop progressively over long time. So initially, only as and when the mismatch between the month name and Ritu became obvious, some adhika masas may have been taken at random. Then it may have been noticed that after 58 continuous normal months, the mismatch equals a full Ritu of two months. So, take two nameless months and fall in step. This was the system prevailing at Mahabharata Time. In the whole of Mahabharata the only reference to Adhika masa is in what Bhishma said at the time Arjun came out of Adnyatavasa and appeared before the Kouravas for battle. He was recognized. When the question arose whether 12+1 =13 years were over, Bhishma explained that after every 58 normal months, two Adhika Masas need to be taken. (पंचमे पंचमे वर्षे मासद्वयम् is the wording). Since there is no other system mentioned anywhere, we have to accept that this was the system then prevailing. Since when it was in use? Not known.

What is a Yuga?

Our ancestors had a concept of a Yuga as a block of time. I am not clear whether there is a definite statement as to how large is a Yuga. There is a concept of a cycle of Four Yugas, viz. Kruta, Treta, Dvapara and Kali. Are they all equal? Why four yugas?

There are four Cardinal points of the Sun’s annual travel through the ecliptic, viz. the two equinoxes and the two solstices. Our ancestors had become aware of this and must have observed that the four points move backwards along the ecliptic, although only very slowly. Is the concept of four Yugas somehow connected with this phenomenon? Brahmadeva formulated the system of time counting with a starting point when Sun moves into Dhanishtha and was at Summer Solstice. At least, that appears the rational explanation of धनिष्ठादि तदा कालो ब्रह्मणा परिनिर्मित:

My speculation is whether a Yuga is the period from that point to the next point in time when Autumnal Equinox starts occurring when Sun is in Dhanishtha! It would mean that a yuga is a block of time needed for one cardinal point to move back to such an extent that the next cardinal point takes its place. There would thus be a cycle of four yugas before the starting point is again reached. We now know that total time of this cycle is 26000 years and so each yuga would have a size of 6500 years! I am of course quite aware that I have no basis to support this speculation.

This year, Summer Solstice occurred when Sun just entered Ardra. Between start of Ardra and end of Dhanishtha there are 9 clear nakshatra. Thus if Summer Solstice is assumed to have been at end of Dhanishtha when Bhrahma started his ‘system’ the Summer Solstice has moved backwards by full 18 nakshatra till now or about 17300 years have gone by. In other words, the year at that time was 15300 BCE! If Sun was at the start of Dhanishtha at that time then the year was 14350 BCE (960 years forward). We may take a mean year or 14850 BCE as the year when the Yuga started. That yuga would then end 6500 years later or in 8350 BCE and the next yuga would end in 1850 BCE! Was this the year when Dwapar yuga ended and Kaliyuga started?

An alternative concept for a Yuga could be the period during which, a Cardinal point occurs within a particular Nakshatra. This will make a Yuga much smaller, about 960 years and there would be no specific significance for four Yugas. There should then be a cycle of 27 Yugas. There is an Arati of Lord Vitthala in Marathi, the first line of which is 'युगे अठ्ठावीस विटेवरी उभा' Any connection?

Dhanishthadi ....

Dhanishthadi ....

Shri. Oak’s book has a chapter on Fall of Abhijit. Although I have found many points of disagreement with what he has written, particularly because of his wrong translation of the shlokas, I was fascinated by the statement by Indra, ‘धनिष्ठादि तदा कालो ब्रह्मणा परिनिर्मितः’ Here are a few thoughts on the subject

Shri. Oak has interpreted this statement to mean that a system of time counting was established by Brahmadeva when one of the Cardinal points of the Sun’s movement through the Ecliptic was in Dhanishtha. By and large this interpretation appears correct to me, as a common reader with some acquaintance with astronomy. We know that as a result of Precision, the four cardinal points, viz. Summer Solstice, Autumnal Equinox, Winter Solstice and Vernal Equinox move backwards through the ecliptic completing one full rotation in 26000 years.

The cardinal points are closely associated with seasons. Our ancestors probably noted the phenomena of equinoxes, longest and shortest days at a very early stage and may have started noticing the year as a time-block, other than and larger than the more easily noticed lunar month. At what stage they firmed up their observation that Sun and Moon move along a specific path in the sky, moon in 27 days and Sun in 365 days is to be left to our imagination. The system of counting numbers, that appears most natural to us, must have taken its time to develop, prior to all this. Then our brilliant ancestors observed that the path of movement of Sun and Moon in the sky can be marked out by referring to some specific stars and groups of stars, lying along the path. How long it took to complete this process of identifying the Nakshatras, at fairly equal distance, that too, 27 of them, and giving them the Names is again unknown. At some point of time all this was done and then only the movement of the cardinal points along the ecliptic,( which is really very slow), must have been observed. Only after all this background was established, Brahma could have said, ‘Such and such Cardinal point is currently in Dhanishtha. A new year begins when Sun enters and passes through Dhanishtha. Let all know this and and I order them to keep track of the year from Dhanishtha through the following 26 nakshatras.’ This is probably what is meant by Indra’s statement.

Which was the Cardinal point which Brahma associated with Dhanishtha? Was it Summer Solstice? It is closely associated with start of the rainy season in India. In south India rains begin a little earlier, by 10th June, but in north Indian, rains start by 25th June, just at Summer Solstice. So Summer Solstice is a most significant marker for an agricultural society. It would be appropriate to assume that Summer Solstice used to occur when Sun was passing through Dhanishtha, when Brahma set down his rule. What is ‘Awe Inspiring’ is that the time when Summer Solstice was coincident with Sun in Dhanishtha, is as far back as 14000 BCE! When I read this in Shri. Oak’s book I was really flabbergasted! Were our ancestors that smart in such ancient time? We can be justly proud of them.

I only wonder, why Brahma did not order counting of years, 1,2,3,4 etc. from that time, or, so to say, started a ‘Brahma Shaka’. If he had, we would have found statements like this ...‘In the year of Brahma 1437, such and such king was ruling at such and such place’ in all ancient texts. If this had happened, there would have been no question about when Mahabharata happened. Vyasa would have mentioned ‘Brahma Years’ for all major events! Shri. Oak and Shri. Achar and all other researchers would have been jobless! So would I! Alas, it did not happen! So we have all the researchers and controversies. (Of course, in spite of Shalivahana Shaka being around, we do have controversies about when Shivaji was born!) Wonder is that no one thought of starting to count years from an event, in India, until Vikramaditya .