आपणास माझे लेखन आवडते आहे असे ब्लॉगला भेट देणारांच्या वाढत्या संख्येवरून वाटते. विषेशकरून कर्णकथेला वाचक पुष्कळ मिळाले. आपल्या प्रतिक्रिया जरूर मिळावयास हव्यात! त्याशिवाय लिहीत राहण्याचा उत्साह कसा टिकून रहाणार?
I changed over from Marathi to English for my comments on Shri. Oak's book recently. I continue to get readers but there are no comments! Wonder whether I am boring!

Last Seven Days

माझी थोडी ओळख

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San Ramon and Mumbai, California and Maharashtra, United States
ज्येष्ठ नागरिक. साहित्य व संगीत प्रेमी. Senior Citizen

Sunday, August 21, 2016

A Short Lunar Fortnight.

Vyasa has talked about a very short Lunar Fortnight from Previous Purnima to The Amavasya on the day just prior to the start of the Mahabharat War. That is the talk between Vyasa and Dhritarashtra when Vyasa describes many bad omens which he sees and which point to the disaster which is going to hit the Kuru dynasty. He says that the fortnight is only of 12 days from Purnima to Amavasya instead of the normal 14 days’ gap or a shorter, but not unusual, 13 days’ gap or even the rare 15 days’ gap. I stated in my earlier post describing what I would verify for any proposed war year, that the lunar fortnight ending on the Amavasya at the start of the war must match this description. The consensus is that it is an extremely unlikely event. Many attempts have been made to check whether this is possible without positive outcome.
I have a surprise for interested readers!
I happened to take a look at the Kalanirnay Calendar for August 2016 and was shocked to note a short fortnight right there!
1. On 17th Aug. it says it is Narali Purnima. Purnima begins ‘in the evening’ at 4-27 PM. Why Purnima then? Because Narali Purnima is an evening affair so you need to have Purnima in the evening. (That is how I understand it)
2. On 18th Aug. it says Shravan Purnima or Rakshabandhan. At sunrise it was a Purnima so it is a Purnima day. Purnima however ended at 2-56 PM.
3. On 19th and 20th Aug. calendar shows Pratipada and Dvitiya. Resp.
4. On 21st Aug. calendar says it is 3 and 4. It is called Sankashti Chaturthi with moonrise at 9-21 PM. Time for beginning of Chaturthi is 8-17 AM and end of Chaturthi is 29-43 PM or 5-43 AM on 22nd Aug. Chaturthi will end before sunrise on 22nd Aug. (These timings are shown on the back page of the calendar.)There is thus a tithi-kshaya here. (Two tithis on the same day.)
5. Then for next 9 days, from 22nd Aug. to 30th Aug. there are consecutive tithis from 5 to 13 (Krishna Panchami to Trayodashi)
6. On 31st Aug. Calendar shows 14th or Chaturdashi. It also shows the Chaturdashi ending and Amavasya beginning at 2-03 PM and calls the day Pithori Amavasya! ( I believe the Puja for Pithori is an Evening event.)
7. On 1st Sept. calendar shows Shravan Amavasya. It was Amavasya at sunrise but it ends at 2-32 PM.
18th August is Purnima and 31st Aug. is Amavasya. There are 12 days between the two!. One tithi, (4th – Chaturthi) has suffered a loss (tithi kshaya) which causes the short fortnight.
Surprisingly, there is a Lunar Eclipse shown on 17th August and Solar Eclipse on 1st Sept. (Both are not visible in India.) Vyasa also had talked of a Lunar Eclipse on the Purnima and a solar eclipse, indirectly hinted and vaguely described, on the first day of war which was a continuation of Amavasya. Of course, you can see a solar eclipse only after sunrise.
Events during this fortnight of August show a surprising similarity with what Vyasa says!
Let us calculate the period between end of Purnima and beginning of Amavasya here.
1. Purnima ended on 18th Aug. at 2-56 PM.
2. On 31st Aug., 13 days later, almost an hour earlier, at 2-03 PM, Amavasya began. The gap is 12 x 24 + 23 hours, or 311 hours. The average period for 14 tithis should be 14 x 24 = 336 hours less 6 hours since lunar month is about 29 1/2 days and not 30 days or say, 330 hrs).
3. The period from End of Purnima to End of Amavasya can also be checked. It is from 18th Aug. 2-56 PM to 1st Sept. 2-32 PM. i. e. 1/2 hour less than 14 full days or 335 1/2 hours against the average of 15 days less 6 hours or 354 hours.
It is clear, this fortnight is a ‘really short’ fortnight.
What Vyasa describes is thus definitely possible and being an unusual event, carefully noted down by Vyasa, any proposed war year under verification must show occurrence of it.
My demand for it is vindicated.
As a matter of curiosity I verified the length of the Krishna Fortnight (from start of Pratipada to End of Amavasya) for the past several months from the data given on Kalanirnay. I find the following figures in hours (rounded off to half hour)
1. Shaka 1936 Pousha - 368.5 hrs.
2. Magha - 360.5 hrs.
3. Falgun - 351.5 hrs.
4. Shaka 1937 Chaitra - 344.0 hrs.
5. Vaishakh - 336.5 hrs.
6. Jyeshtha - 334.0 hrs.
7. Adhik Ashadh - 336.0 hrs.
8. Nija Ashadha - 340.0 hrs.
9. Shravan - 348.0 hrs.
10. Bhadrapad - 357.0 hrs.
11. Ashvin - 366.0 hrs.
12. Kartik - 372.0 hrs.
13. Margashirsha - 374.0 hrs.
14. Pousha - 373.0 hrs.
15. Magha - 367.5 hrs.
16. Falgun - 359.5 hrs.
17.Shaka 1938 Chaitra - 350.0 hrs.
18. Vaishakh - 341.5 hrs.
19. Jyeshtha - 336.0 hrs.
20. Ashadh - 334.0 hrs.
21. Shravan - 335.0 hrs.
One can see a pattern of increasing and decreasing length of the paksha as compared to 15 days less 6hrs or 354 hrs. Jyeshtha of Shaka 1937 also had a short Krishnapaksha of 334 hrs. Calendar shows 2nd June as Purnima and it continues till 9.48 PM. Amavasya however is shown on 16th June and it continues till 9.35 PM. There are 13 days between these two dates so it does not match with Vyasa's description. Also there were no eclipses on either day. So out of short Krishnapakshas of 334/335 hours which will occur from time to time, only very few will match Vyasa's description. I am amazed that, accidentally, I noted that Shravan of Shaka 1938 matches it in all respects.


Nilesh Oak said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nilesh Oak said...

This is good. Now you have to find instance of two eclipses separated by 12 days( or whatever measure you employed here) and we have something to test for each proposed timing of Mahabharata war.

How often do you see this occurring?

प्रभाकर फडणीस P.K. Phadnis said...

1.I noticed the short - really short - fortnight by accident. I have no resources or knowledge to locate other such instances or to state how frequently it can occur.
2. The length of the fortnight shows a distinct pattern even during the short period I could examine, varying from maximum to minimum and back. Every time the length becomes minimum, it does not become a '12 day gap' fortnight. For that, a Tithilope is also necessary and also, on the Purnima day, purnima needs to end soon after sunrise.
3. About eclipses, the fortnight I described itself happens to have a Lunar and a solar eclipse! These were not, however, visible in India. It is beyond my capabilities to locate other years or months to meet conditions of '12 days gap' and eclipses at both ends.
4. My purpose of describing what I noticed was to show that what Vyasa has said does not appear impossible or illogical. Hence I expect that researchers who propose any year ought to test the features of the fortnight ending on the Amavasya before war began and verify whether they match what Vyasa has said.
5. Maybe, some day someone will locate an year to meet this condition and many other astronomical observations. Vyasa himself says - 'कालोह्ययं निरवधिर्विपुलाsच पृथ्वी.'

Nilesh Oak said...

Good stuff.

Nilesh Oak said...

I ran voyager simulation for 1 Sept 2016. AT 2:30 PM, sun and moon are right on each other (solar eclipse). I do not understand why Calendar would state this time as the end of Amawasya.

Mathematically speaking, 12 degree movement of the moon corresponds to one Tithi. Thus I would have thought a position of the moon away from the sun (on day of Amawasya) by about 6 degrees should be the start and stop of that Tithi.

We do not know how Tithis were counted (beginning and end) during Mahabharata times. That is fine and we can figure it out, i.e. we may speculate.

But even to do that, we must understand the logic employed in today's calendar. Based on Voyager simulation, at least, the logic of ending of Amawasya at 2:32 PM (Delhi location) is not clear to me.

प्रभाकर फडणीस P.K. Phadnis said...

Your 2-30 PM timing. - Is it IST or GMT? Kalanirnaya timings are all Indian Standard Times.

प्रभाकर फडणीस P.K. Phadnis said...

Out of curiosity, I checked the distribution of 311 hours between the 14 tithis from Kr. Pratipada to Chaturdashi. The durations are - 1.Pra. 22hr. 4 min. 2.Dvi. 21hrs. 45 min. 3. Tri. 21 hrs. 32 min. 4. Cha. 21 hrs. 26 min. 5. Panch. 21 hrs. 26 min. 6. Sha. 21 hrs. 29 min. 7. Sapt. 21 hrs. 39 min. 8. Asht. 21 hrs. 50 min. 9. Nava. 22hrs. 06 min. 10 dash. 22 hrs. 24 min. 11.Ekada. 22hrs. 44 min. 12. Dwada. 23 hrs. 08 min. 13 Tra. 23hrs. 33 min. 14 Chaturdashi 24 hrs. 01 min. Duration of Amavasya was 24 hrs. 29 min.
From Tritiya to Saptami all are of short duration. Only Chaturthi suffered a Tithi Kshaya because it started a little after sunrise and ended a little before next sunrise!

प्रभाकर फडणीस P.K. Phadnis said...

Amavasya ending when Sun and Moon are together appears correct to me. If it was to end when moon has gone 6 degrees away from Sun, at sunset it would be even further away and should be always visible just after sunset. There should be no difficulty in seeing 'Id ka Chaand' If Amavasya ends with Sun and moon bang on, depending on when during the day it happens, moon would be only nominally separated from Sun by sunset some times and would be difficult to see and doubt would arise whether it is Id day or not! It is known to happen!

Sameer Barve said...

I would like to provide some details-

1) Tithi is complete when ecliptic longitude of the Moon changes by 12 degrees with respect to the Sun.
2) For amavasya (New Moon), the calendar/panchang makers show start time as the time when the Moon is 12 degrees west of the Sun. The amavasya ends when ecliptic longitude of the Sun and the Moon are zero. With ending of amavasya, pratipada of the shukla paksha begins.
3) The pratipada completes when the Moon is about 12 degrees east of the Sun. This would be the time when the moon's crescent can be seen in the sky just after the Sunset (Id ka chand as mentioned by Shri. Phadnis).
4) The same logic continues for other tithis as well. When the Moon is 24 degrees east of the Sun, dwitiya is completed and trutiya begins.
5) The Paurnima (Full Moon day) begins when chaturdashi is completed. That happens when the Moon is 168 degrees east of the Sun. When the Moon moves eastward by another 12 degrees, the angular separation between the Sun and the Moon becomes 180 degrees and they occupy diametrically opposite positions in the sky.
6) For 18th August 2016 which was full Moon day, it is shown that Moon was in Makara rashi. So, the Sun should be in Karka rashi (diametrically opposite to Moon). Around 15th August every year, the Sun enters Karka rashi (nirayana rashi and not sayan rashi!)

Using the knowledge of tithi amd angular separation between the Sun and the Moon, one can find
a) the duartion for which the Moon will be seen in the sky
b) moonrise and moonset timing (approx)
c) in which rashi/nakshatra moon will be seen
d) which month of the year is currently going on (both gregorian and indian months)

These points are also important if one is planning for sky observation programmes. Usually, such programmes require minimum disturbance of moonlight so that even faint stars can also be seen. Hence, such programmes are usually arranged on or around new moon,i.e, amavasya.

I hope this helps.

प्रभाकर फडणीस P.K. Phadnis said...

Thanks. I am aware of the 12 Degree separation per tithi. The duration of any tithi or the fortnight will of course depend on the orbital speed of both the Sun and Moon at that time. If the differential is large, the fortnight will be short. All information about times I posted is from Kalanirnay.

Sameer Barve said...

Yes, the duration of tithi will be different depending upon orbital positions of the Sun and the Moon. While Sun moves by about 1 degree per day on the ecliptic, Moon moves by about 13 degrees per day on either sides (north or south) of ecliptic. So, the Moon moves by about 12 degrees with respect to the Sun and this fact is used by panchang makers.

If you are using Voyager, you can note down the longitude values of Sun and Moon to find out exact time when each tithi is completed. Using this, you can find out whether short krishna paksha occured just before 16th Oct 5561 BCE (or any other date for that matter) from Kurukshetra/Hastinapur location.

प्रभाकर फडणीस P.K. Phadnis said...

I am learning to use Voyager and some time will go before I can check whether the dark fortnight just prior to date of war claimed by Shri. Oak was a very short one like the one I wrote about. I have great doubt about it. If Shri. Barve can check quickly I am keen to know the duration IN HOURS between end of Purnima and start of Amavasya. Shri. Oak has not done it so far.

Sameer Barve said...

I will send all the details on email to you. Start time, end time, ecliptic longitude, how to define boundaries of 12 rashis and of course voyager screenshots..

Please give me a few days time.

प्रभाकर फडणीस P.K. Phadnis said...

I have already posted details of timing for the Amavasya and Purnimas and shown that both the fortnights, one before and the other after the date of war proposed by Shri. Oak are NOT short. In fact the one ending on 16th Oct. is of 16 days, i. e. very long!I got the detailed timing from Voyager.